We have had such a lovely day today – a jam packed, fun filled Friday. We left the house at 10am and didn’t sit down until four. With Erin starting school in September, I am cramming in every moment of our Fridays together. Today we spent the morning working up an appetite hunting for The Big Sleuth bears around Solihull centre. Erin loved it and enjoyed posing in her shades with every bear we came across. By midday, we were all pretty starving so headed for some lunch.
For those of you who haven’t met my daughter… she is best described by the all encompassing parenting phrase “spirited”. She is absolutely full of life, always happy, always laughing, singing and dancing, but also a little over energetic and at times I wonder if her ears can hear any of the instructions that come out of my mouth, but she is four years old, and she is living life to the full. I have to repeat myself regularly, ask her to be quiet often, and at times wish she came with a volume control. But discipline her I do. I think it is important that she learns some boundaries, and I think manners are important. I also like others to see that she is corrected when she has done something wrong…
But when, if ever is appropriate for someone else to discipline your child???
A family member, yes of course – my Dad and my sister would happily tell Erin off if she did something wrong, and I wouldn’t bat an eyelid.
A friend? Sure – if Erin is misbehaving and putting herself or my friends children in a situation they shouldn’t be in then absolutely, I am comfortable with a friend asking her to stop.
Disclosure – This photo isn’t from today – just another photo of Erin enjoying a meal out!
But a waiter? A complete stranger? Over something fairly minor? No. Not OK sorry.
Today I watched and bit my lip as a waiter, a person who was serving me and my child my lunch, told off not only my child, but another group of children to my right.
He came over to take our order, and Erin was singing. Nothing loud, and nothing rude, just her latest rendition of You are My Sunshine – something which I am guessing is going to form part of her preschool graduation as she has been singing it on repeat for the last month.
As I was listing our food items he looked at Erin and went “Stop singing, I can’t hear your Mum”. There wasn’t a smile, and it was blunt. Erin, to her credit, stopped singing (and then quickly continued when he left).
I didn’t think much of it at the time, but when I heard him tell another group of boys who were sat with their Mums a few minutes later it really started to get my back up. “Sit down now boys your dinner is coming”.
There was no warmth, no gritted teeth smile of “Come on now lads, your dinner’s on its way”
Someone was clearly having a bad day, and it showed.
Whilst I understand that for some it would be lovely if children could sit nicely and colour in their menus without making any noise whatsoever, most parents know this is a rarity. It happened to us once – the illusion of perfect parenting, and I don’t expect it will happen again any time soon. I also happen to enjoy my daughters singing. It wasn’t loud, it wasn’t intrusive and she was a four year old who was having a lovely day. This is a family restaurant. A family restaurant in the middle of the day. If you don’t like children, then I am sorry, dear waiter, you are in the wrong job.
And as for his tip?
It was used to treat Erin to a new Mashem. Thank you very much.
What are your thoughts? Am I overreacting? Is it ever OK to discipline someone else’s child?
I don’t think you’re overreacting at all, but my issue wouldn’t be with what he did as much as with how he did it. If he was having difficulty hearing you, I think it’s fine he said so…but his way of doing it was all wrong. He could have maybe said to you “sorry, I can’t hear you above this little pop star” or said to her “that’s a lovely song, but do you mind singing a little quieter so I can make sure I get your order right?” with a smile and a joke. You’re right, if he can’t deal with children (or people) nicely, he’s probably in the wrong job!
You are completely wrong.
Have you ever tried serving in a restaurant when children are running around? If you had, you’d understand.
Secondly, maybe you should teach your daughter a bit of manners. I’ll bet you’ve never tried to hear someone’s food order while their child is belting out the latest rendition of “let it go”, because YOU would be the first to complain if he got your order wrong because he couldn’t hear.
Children should be well behaved in a restaurant. For three main reasons: health & safety, to allow the waiter to do their job properly & thirdly so the comfort/experience of other diners isn’t ruined.
Actually I have worked in retail and as a waitress. I therefore do understand that some customers, adults and children can be very challenging.
I was also taught customer service and manners. I would never be as rude as he was.
I agree some children, and on many occasion in the past mine, can be nightmares in restaurants, and IF she had been singing loudly and ‘belting’ as you put it then yes I would agree there would no issue in asking her politely to be quiet. However that is not what happened here. She was singing yes, but quietly, and no louder than another adult talking. If he couldn’t hear he could have politely asked her to be quiet or told me he couldn’t hear. Instead he was just rude. She was not being naughty, she was not disturbing other customers and she was not running amok in a (family friendly) restaurant. She is however four, and was enjoying her day.
I agree if there was any risk to health and safety, or ruining others experience then by all means get involved. Even then you don’t need to be rude.
As for ruining others dining experience we actually left early before Erin’s desert (which wed paid for) because my baby started to get tired and I didn’t want her crying to disturb other guests.
I do appreciate your points but my daughters manners are just fine thank you.
Wow Laura. Her kid was NOT running around causing a health and safety issue, she was simply being a child and having a little sing-a-long. Perhaps you should have more manners!
You’ve listed examples which are the opposite to the situation. So, your comment is invalid as much as unhelpful. Singing does not equal bad manners, nor was she running around and ultimately? If you work in a restaurant, your JOB is to keep customers happy. Not overstep the mark, particularly with no valid reason. There is a difference between a child running around a busy restaurant which could cause a health and safety hazard, and a child sat down singing. Lighten up!
When I worked as a waitress, way back when, in an Ask restaurant I used to bring up the ice cream fairy if I was struggling with providing a service for the parents and there children. Or say if the children were running around, mainly because my worst fear was if I was to drop one of the oven baked dishes onto a child. I used to say that the ice cream fairy was watching to help parents that seemed exasperated. Some parents joined in, others didn’t but the kids loved it and were then less prone to running around or screaming. I wouldn’t have done anything in the case of you and you’re daughter other than complement her on her singing.
Yes!!! And that’s a completely appropriate and helpful response whilst still being polite. Everyone’s commenting saying I have clearly never worked in the service industry when actually I have for most of my teenage years! I was also taught some manners and customer service!! X
Thank you and I will be stealing that sorry 18 years I have worked in the restaurant trade and being a father of 3 myself I fully understand both sides of the argument, I personally have learned a couple of wee magic tricks which are occasionally used as the same sort of blackmail /reward for good behaviour and eating their food but what ever works but under NO CIRCUMSTANCE can you EVER treat anyone and especially a child in that manner NO NO NO my advice to that waiter is that McDonalds are always hiring pal !
We literally, as waiters, have people complaining all day every day about children. We’re stuck in a hard place with this really. Whilst your child was probably fine, if children are running round a restaurant they should be asked to sit down. You wouldn’t run through one, why should a child be able to. Want to run? Get take away or a packed lunch and go to the park. We constantly have children left without their parents, licking things in the restaurants, I one time had to clean up a child’s faeces as the parent watched because I was the one working, it was on my bars floor so therefor it was my responsibility, every week we have someone who lets their child scream, shout, or even sing loudly and we receive so many complaints about it. We also have a million things to do and whilst you think ur child singing over someone might be cute, it’s not. It’s getting in our way and slowing down our service and our level of service, and if you don’t ask your child to stop you’re making our job harder and pretty much teaching them it’s ok to treat hospitality staff like crap. This is the reason a lot of places are now becoming adult only, because we so frequently have to deal with things getting flung about, kids screaminf and running, knocking things over, ruining cutlery, making tables dirty, licking things etc etc. Our job is tough enough as it is to keep everyone happy- it’s not our job to ask your child to stop singing over the top of you or me, or to ask them to sit down, but if you’re failing to ask them and there getting in the way of the job, then yes, we should ask them. I think you’re over reacting and being slightly selfish. We work 10/12/14 hour shifts with literally no breaks and crap pay, we also should have to put up with stuff like screaming kids. Also, I hope your child didn’t see you not tipping, sounds like total entitlement to me!
I worked in retail and customer service most of my teenage years. I was taught customer service and manners. A tip is not an entitlement it is earned through good service. I agree IF my child had been naughty with what you have written above and if she was running, shouting or disturbing other guests I completely would have intervened myself. But she was not. She was colouring in and quietly singing a song. My issue isn’t so much that he asked her to be quiet but his tone and lack of please. I am not anti waiter/waitress, nor am I pretending for one minute that my children are always well behaved because they are NOT, but in this case, he was way off in his approach x
You wouldn’t tip anyway … who are you kidding…
Your failed to teach your daughter manners ( you don’t talk or ” sing” over anyone) and now you are blaming waiter for having the courage to do , what you should have done in the first place …
I tip regularly thanks very much. If you say so!
I don’t think you’re over-reacting at all. I’d be furious if someone was telling my child what to do, and in an un-pleasant manner at that. It’s singing for gods sake, it’s not like she’s shouting out swear words and offending other diners. I’m actually appalled at some of the comments you’ve received on this post too. Don’t be doubting yourself lovely, you have every right to be p*ssed off. I would be too. x
Im a chef and also a dad, I’ve worked in restaurants and cafes for 25 years both front Nd back of house. It is never the job of a server to be rude to children. Rude is what it is when you chastise a child for no good reason. Just because they are children does not give you the right to tell them what to do. I would love to see them talk to an adult like that. I completely understand the pressures of the job and the terrible conditions we some times work in in hospitality but the clue is in the name…. Hospitality. I think people in trade forget this a lot. Customers pay our wages and if they don’t come to our workplaces we don’t have a job. I’ve noticed this trend of servers not actually thinking giving good service is part of their Job getting worse and worse over the last few years. The hours are rubbish the pay is rubbish and we have to deal with idiots all the time but there’s never an excuse for not being nice to a child…. I would imagine that the people who are moaning about children have no experience what so ever of looking after kids and some people seem to forget we were all children once.
Thanks Marco – yes some people have taken this post as a personal attack against the hospitality trade – it’s not at all. I worked in retail for many years and then as a head office contact for a hospitality company. Customer service is key here and there is a way of going about things.
We can’t say for sure what was happening that day. What we do know is that we only have one side of the story, on a blog where the majority of readers/comments will back you up.
Coming from another perspective, however, what I tend to find is that self-entitled mummy believes that her little angel can do no wrong. I’m not saying this is you, but this is a careful observation over many, many years in hospitality and waiting tables. Let’s call her Janet. It usually goes like this; Janet’s precious cherub watches as she requests for items, which are either not on the menu, not sold at that particular establishment or (my personal favourite) a mish-mash of parts from other dishes on the menu. – “Hi there, I know you don’t have it on here but would we be ok to just get organic, gluten free bread, toasted with peanut butter? Harry/Briony doesn’t eat anything on your menu”.
Now imagine this, over the course of a 10 hour shift – if you’re lucky. Now add in a chef who believes himself to be Michele Roux – shouting and swearing at the staff for taking orders off-menu, which they have done so, only to accommodate the Janet’s of the world who would insist on speaking to the manager, if they don’t get their way. Now imagine that you are barely making minimum wage while dealing with all of this.
The food was cooked properly, the drinks were cold, the coffee was hot, you cleaned up the mess that was inevitably left behind at the table where a child/children have been sat – because it’s beyond Janet to explain that mashing the butter onto the table, isn’t acceptable. Then, after all of that, Janet leaves without a small tip to thank you for waiting on them hand and foot. Why? Because you had the unmitigated gall to tell her child to be quiet so you could take their order down, without any mistakes, to save the grief of “Excuse me, I’d like to speak to the manager”.
Yes, kids can be hard work. My own daughter is no angel! They can’t be perfectly behaved all the time, that said, when I was a child I was raised to respect people and be polite. How was this done? I would have been asked by my parents to stop singing for a second while the waiter was there. BUT I would perhaps have been asked to place the order with the waiter. This happened a couple of times, actually. My family were never in hospitality but they knew that the job wasn’t easy so they made sure that, at the very least, I would grow up to show respect and have manners.
Trust me folks – Retail and head office in a company are not hospitality roles. Not even close. You do not have to continually deal with situations such as this. At worst, you have to deal with the public while cashing their items through or down a phone line. I currently manage venues but I still remember all of these experiences as I go about my day. My staff have a tough job, dealing with the Janet’s of this world.
If I was Janet – I would agree – however I am not Janet – my daughter wasn’t misbehaving and I wasn’t expecting any special service. Like I said, I left early without the dessert that we’d paid for as my youngest was getting tired and I didn’t want to disturb other people. I cleared up my mess behind me and I let the couple next to me eat without listening to a whingy baby. I feel genuinely sorry for people dealing with Janet, but that’s not what happened on this day x
I think he totally went about it in the wrong way, and I would definitely be upset if I were in your position! I worked in retail most of my life, and there’s plenty of nice ways to go about things.. and that was NOT the right way x
I think he totally went about it in the wrong way, and I would definitely be upset if I were in your position! I worked in retail most of my life, and there’s plenty of nice ways to go about things.. and that was NOT the right way x
I wouldn’t have been impressed if a waiter had talked to my or other children like that either. It’s all about the tone and body language isn’t it.
There are parents who unfortunately do let their children run amok in restaurants and that is a h&s issue as well as a major disruption for the staff and other diners but your daughter wasn’t doing that.
It can’t be easy working non-stop on very little pay but politeness to customers and a smile costs nothing.
“Stop singing I can’t hear your Mum” and “sit down now boys” are not disciplining a child, discipline is the practice of training people to obey rules or a code of behaviour, using punishment to correct disobedience, I literally copy and pasted the definition from the dictionary. The waiter is telling your child to be quiet while he does a job, he’s giving your child an order, telling your child what to do, he can’t discipline a child in the space of time it takes to place a food order. Your concept of discipline is peculiar.
To me ‘stop’ implies the behaviour is inappropriate and as such she’s been told off. Whether it was discipline or an order it was badly executed imo.
While this possibly wasn’t the waiter’s wisest choice of action in this situation, your response here is rather unfounded. No matter how quiet she was being, your child was singing away whilst the waiter was trying to take your order; the fact that he felt it necessary to comment at all shows that it was making it difficult (or at least unnecessarily awkward) to do his job.
You say that your daughter has been taught manners, but that really depends on your definition of ‘manners’, and it sounds like the waiter might have a different definition, as I do. I personally have worked in customer service and have two children of my own, and they would never, under any circumstances, be allowed to sing while the waiter was taking my order. I get that children sometimes talk or sing louder than we’d all like them to (god knows mine do when they get excited), but it is always the job of the parent to teach them when this is allowed and when it is not. My children (4 and 7) are firmly told that they must be quiet while mum tells the waiter what we want, and are perfectly capable of doing so. I consider it very bad manners to not be quiet while the waiter takes an order, for both adults and children. It’s just plain rude, and it is completely the job of the parent to hush their children while the waiter does his job.
Kids will be kids, but there’s a time and place. If they can’t behave, they don’t get to eat out. I myself had some trouble with my eldest, who was what you might call ‘spirited’, but if he had been singing while an order was being taken, I would have told him once that if he wasn’t quiet we would be leaving, and if he hadn’t listened then we would have left. On two memorable occasions I did have to leave because he was being loud, so I get that it can be awkward but it’s how manners are learned.
I hope you don’t take this is criticism so much as advice from a fellow parent (it’s always good to share ideas, since we all know how hectic kids can make things!), but the waiter (while perhaps too blunt for a child) was right to say something, since it sounds like you weren’t going to yourself. I’m sure you wouldn’t have liked it if he had brought you the wrong order because he couldn’t hear you properly. While your order is being taken, everyone else at the table, including children, should be quiet to allow the waiter to do his job. Not everyone does this as an adult, which likely means they never learned as a child. But talking/singing while the waiter takes the order is just bad manners, and it might be time to teach your daughter that lesson.
Thankyou for your comment. Had she been singing loudly yes I would completely agree, Erin can proper belt out sing when she wants to and there is no way in a million years I’d have let that happen. I personally don’t see an issue with her singing quietly whilst colouring in, but we may have a different view on that. As for manners, she has otherwise been told to say excuse me, please & thankyou, sit nicely and eat with her knife and fork without disturbing other guests. Most of the time she does well, others she does not. She is four and I am doing my best.
As you say, regardless of whether her quiet singing was being rude, the waiter handled the situation poorly in my opinion, as I am confident he will deal with a child MUCH more rude than that on a daily basis.
Im a waitress and a mum of a three year old.
I’ve had many experiences with kids running around, fighting, shouting ect and I would never dream of speaking to a child in that regard. This lady’s post isn’t about the hospitality industry and how they deal with kids its about ONE man and how he spoke to her child. When did a child singing become bad manners?? Kids go into here own wee world and don’t realise what they are doing sometimes, should her mum have said to her to stop sing? Yes. But she might have not had a chance before the waiter spoke up. At the end of the day those who work in this industry have to deal with lots of different situations, id take a little girl singing over half of that horrible things I’ve had to deal with. He didn’t deal with those situations very well at all. Tips are completely optional, its the guest leaves a tip then that’s up to them.
The way the waiter spoke to your child was wrong. HOWEVER, I believe it’s very important for children to be told off by strangers if they are indeed misbehaving. I have very strong memories of it happening to me as a child and they’ve stuck with me for a reason. It taught me to respect everyone around me, to be considerate to those I don’t know as much as to those I know and am comfortable around. For peaceful cohabitation there always has to be a bit of compromise. Teaching your children that they should only be considerate of you or your family is not a way of raising considerate adults who are aware of the needs of others around them.
The mother should of asked the child to stop singing when the waiter came over to the table your child your job don’t get annoyed when someone has to step in and do your job for you. I come from a family of seven and if we where doing that when we were kids my mother would kindly ask us to stop as the man or women was coming over to take our order and you know something we all did because she asked us to and the fact it meant we were all closer to getting food.
Had she been singing loudly I would have, but actually I felt that she was behaving quite well, singing to herself fairly quietly whilst colouring in. I didn’t see it as rude in any way shape or form. Either way, I think a stranger should only do a ‘parents job for them’ if there is an issue that is dangerous, unruly or likely to genuinely disturb other people x
Two sides to this story I think and when you say she was signing but not loudly I don’t believe you for one second. I dont think you realise how hard it is being a waitress having to take an order 9 hours in without a break to a 14 hour shift. The waitress may well have snapped but you are part of the problem here and your first world problem is pathetic to say the least.
Ok Lisa thanks for your input!
For me it’s not the what it’s the how. All it needed was a (talking to her) “I’m sorry sweetie I can’t hear your mummy. Can you stop singing for a little while until she tells me what you want for lunch and then you can start again?” She wasn’t being unruly, she was quietly singing for goodness sake! Manners cost nothing but go a long way.
He clearly just went about it the wrong way. Some people are just not very good at communicating with children. #humpdaylinky
Some of the comments you’ve had on here…. really? I think if he had a problem and couldn’t hear you then he should have said to you “I’m sorry, I can’t hear you properly and I don’t want to get your order wrong” … ignore people. Let your daughter be confident enough to sing in front of people – that’s beautiful.
#humpdaylinky
Sounds like he was just crabby and didn’t have the patience for his job that day. I don’t think that strangers should say things to our children that are better off coming from their parents. In this case, I would brush it off and not make a big deal about it.
I’ve worked as a receptionist in hotel and had many occasions listening to tired and misbehaving child. The rule is – for those saying it’s not ok – if your little customer sings by the table and you can’t hear the order you say: sorry, I didn’t understand that, can you repeat it please? And not by telling to her companion to stop singing, even she’s only a child. It would be completely unacceptable in a good 4-5* hotel or restaurant! Would you ask a person who’s autistic or can’t hear well so speaking louder than normal to stop talking? No you wouldn’t would you. But because she’s a child you can tell her off. Good on you spending the tip elsewhere. That’s another thing sets me off – and I worked in the service industry – tip only if there was an extra mile.
I think that like you, I would find that very rude and a bit of a shock if a waiter spoke to my daughters like that. As you say, obviously in the wrong job- particularly with the school summer holidays approaching!
He wasn’t being rude or disciplining anyone. He was being factual and doing his job. I run a pub. Everyone who is well-behaved is welcome, adults kids dogs, everyone. I wouldn’t allow singing from an adult so why from a child? The guy was trying to do his job properly and the singing was a problem to that, so he worked swiftly and efficiently to solve the problem. No-one was hurt, no-one cried, the order was taken and food came out. There is no issue here.
I would have been miffed too, but probably not enough to write a blog post about it! I don’t necessarily have a problem with what and the why he did it. Asking children to be quiet so you can hear what others are saying etc seems fair enough. Bur he could have used a lighter touch and a bit of humour. The how leaves a lot to be desired.
The blog at times is just my brain dump and this was one such post. I didn’t really expect such strong reactions to it if I’m honest but it’s definitely caused a debate! I agree it’s not so much what he said but how. X
@loosea
Please don’t be offended by responses on here, this was shared to a bar/restaurant page and this is how I noticed.
As I said in my previous post I have been in the restaurant trade for 18 years ( the poor responses on here only go to show you as a restaurant worker no longer respect this as a trade) as for the rest of us it is part and parcel with the job , we serve alcohol and also have to endure drunks but I don’t see you all crying about it . For those of you that have a problem here I find it hugely insulting to what I still consider a trade that your sadly lacking waiting skills find this an issue. Shame on you all get a grip and a new job , McDonalds are always hiring !!! If you can’t find a way to connect with your customers whether they be 5 or 85 wtf are you doing being a waiter? Believe me I have had my fair share of unruly children and more than my fair share of unruly adults but it is in these situations we sort the wheat from the chaff , SHAME ON YOU who defend this waiter but I’m 100 % sure you are the same people who complain about making crap tips but it’s ok as if you can’t see the correlation then like I said maccy dees for you !!! I have disciplined other people’s children but usually the simple threat of no ice cream if you don’t behave works 99.9 % of the time and sometimes it takes a stranger to deal with tantrums ( I have 3 kids so I know and also my 6 yr old is autistic so believe me I understand ) as a parent you can not bow to a tantrum and many parents over the years have thanked me for my soft approach to a situation which would have resulted in the parent giving into a tantrum for the sake of keeping the peace THIS WAS NOT such an occasion and sadly the waiter in question is part of the problem as to why this trade is no longer considered a trade as he let us all down as do all you overzealous waiters on here giving it big licks , get over yourself and take a bit of pride in your work !!!
Tips are an extra for going the extra mile NOT an attendance bonus .
If you can’t connect with the majority of your customers regardless of age , creed or beliefs then please do us all a favour and find a new job !!! Like I said McDonalds are always hiring and thankfully personality is not required
Hola, normalmente no me gustan los niños, son muy mal criados y los padres rara vez los corrigen, casos que veo a diario en mis sobrinos o hijos de amigos, pero en tu caso te encuentro toda la razón, ese mozo no tenía ningún derecho, en primera porque no te conoce y en segunda por el contexto de su trabajo. Alguien debe darle una lección, no fuiste tú, pero otra persona lo hará, es la única forma en que los humanos terminemos de aprender a ubicarnos!